NKT Chaplaincy, NKT Business & NKT Research
Some updates:
NKT Chaplaincy in Canada
The Sumeru Books Blog wrote in June 2009:
Buddhist chaplaincy in the spotlight
By Yönten, on June 15th, 2009Correctional Services Canada is looking for Buddhist chaplains and has $75,000 in contracts to back that up, according to a Canadian Press story released today.
Currently, Kelsang Donsang, a Westerner who is resident teacher at the Kuluta Buddhist Centre in Kingston is their only approved contact and is in line to renew the contract for 1,717 hours/year of chaplaincy services.
Kuluta is a New Kadampa Tradition center affiliated with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso. The irony is that most Buddhists do not consider New Kadampa as a legitimate Buddhist organization.
Here is the link on CSC’s website to their report in PDF format:
http://www.csc-scc.gc.ca/text/pa/ev-arsps-378-1-149/relig_spirit_e.pdf
Buddhism and Business Ethics
Justine Elizabeth Haney, Queens University, has tried to research the NKT with respect to “Buddhism and Business Ethics”-Adaptation and Integration: An Inquiry Regarding the Matters of Business and Ethics in The New Kadampa Tradition.
NKT and Research on NKT
I just glanced through Haney’s essay and it might be—though she tried to keep a type of scepticism—she has fallen to a certain extent prey to the euphemist language NKT use so skilfully. For instance she writes: The International Temples Project is Geshe Kelsang Gyatso’s compassionate vision to have a Kadampa Buddhist Temple dedicated to world peace in every major city of the world. That it is a compassionate vision to built an NKT temple in every major city of the world is an NKT claim, it could be claimed that this aim is a megalomaniac vision too, far more as NKT is the brand product of one single person who tries at all means to keep total control over it: Kelsang Gyatso. To call it a megalomaniac vision might be indicated also by the fact that he himself said in Berlin 2000: “I, I am the NKT!” So I would claim: actually, spreading NKT is spreading Kelsang Gyatso and his 23 books. But maybe I am wrong here?
NKT is solely based on his authority and understanding of the Gelug presentation of Vajrayana and Sutra teachings. Kelsang Gyatso is the only accepted living Buddhist authority within NKT. The NKT temples are solely based on his teachings, books etc—though there are Buddha statues and thankas, and one Sutra (the Heart Sutra) these Buddhist icons can not oppose his claims about Buddhism (e.g. the NKT ordination “lineage” would derive from the Perfection of Wisdom Sutras). NKT is an organisation solely circling around one person, hence some refer to it as a personality cult. By spreading NKT temples world wide his personal vision of Buddhism and his created Buddhist brand New Kadampa Tradition is spread worldwide, it increases HIS influence, power and presence, not that of Buddhism. Though it is claimed this is only for the benefit of others, it might be it is only for the benefit of his reputation and fame. At least there might be different perspectives if establishing an NKT temple in every major city of the world and to sell the own books in “every book shop in the world” is qualified to be called a compassionate action or not. I would expect a bit more distance from a researcher with respect to such claims.
It is incorrect by Haney to claim a “Tibetan custom to charge for Buddhist teachings” and the story surrounding Yeshe Ö’s offering of gold to Atisha—which is widely explained to be an expression of his deep appreciation of Buddhist teachings rather than payment demanded by the monastery—is misconstrued by Haney to be an actual payment. I wonder if this is now the official NKT story of the events in old Tibet or where she got that from. What I like is that she tried to be unbiased and had a certain type of scepticism but I fear NKT research requires really experienced researcher to fully get the things as they are. NKT and Tibetan Buddhism in general as well as the socialisation of Tibetans are extremely complex, the complexity is greater due to cross cultural issues, and if people are not honest in what they say or have an agenda to hide unwelcomed facts.
Sometimes I wonder how much researcher rely and even take over NKT statements without checking them against other sources or to look onto them from different angles. This can be seen in Bluck’s research, as well as in Cozort’s paper, and more recently in Bell’s research on the Shugden history, e.g. when he states on page 21:
“When Dorjé Shukden practitioners in America have protested peacefully against the Dalai Lama’s policies, individuals who have attended the Dalai Lama’s lectures have spat on them and throne bottles.”
When the NKT alias Western Shugden Society protested in New York they claimed to have done this “peacefully” and accused the Dalai Lama followers (mainly Tibetans for whom the event was organised) to have behaved like a “hostile mob“; but to accuse a person in general (or the Dalai Lama particularly in this case) to be a liar and a hypocrite, as NKT/WSS have done it, shouting these accusations loudly with megaphones over a long time is not necessarily peaceful, it could be called aggressive and “violent speech” too. It could be argued as well, the “NKT mob” aggressively provoked the Tibetans who came to listen to the teachings of the Dalai Lama, their respected leader. It is expected from Buddhists not to go to places to propound their own tenets where they are not invited because going to places where one is not invited and to teach the own views could create conflicts for the people at that place. Actual NKT has violated this Buddhist peace means. Then if some conflict arise, who’s fault is it? Nobody invited the “NKT mob” to shout loudly and over a very long time their (hostile) accusations at places where people gathered to listen faithfully the teachings of the Dalai Lama. I was rather amazed to see how easy— e..g.—the people took the aggressive provocations in Nantes, France, 2008, where the noise of the NKT protesters didn’t even stop when the people ate their meals and wished to communicate with each other… even to communicate was difficult due to the constant noise of megaphone amplified slogans shouted by the protesters in rhythms (and I think even supported by drums, when I remember correctly.)…
I think to really make a good account of what NKT is and is not, this requires a researcher with life experience, a deep understanding of Tibetan Buddhism, values in Asian and Western cultures, and also a person who has some experience with wrong truth claims as they can be found so often in New Religious Movements, and which are often just means to rewrite the history of such groups. To my opinion Kay’s research is the best account on this as far as I have seen.
Nevertheless thanks to the young researcher for their effort and hopefully there will be some good and balanced in-depth research in the future. I also do apologize that I mainly focused on some weak points I found, and that I didn’t appreciate strong points!
Hi TP,
I disagree with some of the points made in your article. For example, you imply that NKT is Geshe Kelsang’s creation when NKT is actually based on the teachings of Trijang Rinpoche and all the other lineage Gurus going back to Je Tsongkhapa and Atisha, and further back to Buddha Shakyamuni. That’s why it’s a TRADITION. The teachings are not newly created – all the spiritual meanings are traditional, only the presentation is new.
I think it’s a shame if you really believe that Geshe Kelsang is trying to spread Kadam Dharma and build temples on some kind of ego trip – nothing could be further from the truth, but you are entitled to your view.
On the matter of the NY protests, the WSS members did not provoke the Tibetans – there was no deliberate taunting or bad behaviour on the part of the protestors, they were simply exercising their freedom of speech and requesting the Dalai Lama to rescind his irrational ban of Dorje Shugden prayers that has been the cause of so much suffering. I can understand why the Tibetans became angry and I feel sorry for them but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour of people who, a short time ago, had been listening to the Dalai Lama teach about the Four Noble Truths.
comment TP:
This post was in the spam folder for some days. Lineageholder is known from the Tricycle blog discussion and other places in the internet, including this one. It might be helpful even after 30 comments to recognize that Wisdom Moon is lineageholder, hence I approved it though it is double with respect to the content.
Lineageholder
December 13, 2010 at 10:58 pm
Hi TP,
I disagree with some of the points made in your article. For example, you imply that NKT is Geshe Kelsang’s creation when NKT is actually based on the teachings of Trijang Rinpoche and all the other lineage Gurus going back to Je Tsongkhapa and Atisha, and further back to Buddha Shakyamuni. That’s why it’s a TRADITION. The teachings are not newly created – all the spiritual meanings are traditional, only the presentation is new.
I think it’s a shame if you really believe that Geshe Kelsang is trying to spread Kadam Dharma and build temples on some kind of ego trip – nothing could be further from the truth, but you are entitled to your view.
On the matter of the NY protests, the WSS members did not provoke the Tibetans – there was no deliberate taunting or bad behaviour on the part of the protestors, they were simply exercising their freedom of speech and requesting the Dalai Lama to rescind his irrational ban of Dorje Shugden prayers that has been the cause of so much suffering. I can understand why the Tibetans became angry and I feel sorry for them but that doesn’t excuse the behaviour of people who, a short time ago, had been listening to the Dalai Lama teach about the Four Noble Truths.
Wisdom Moon
December 14, 2010 at 11:47 am
There is a problem with the laissez-faire attitude of many Buddhist groups when it comes to public engagement. It is the responsibility of Buddhist communities in Canada to challenge NKT’s cornering of the chaplaincy market here, and inform Correctional Services of NKT’s history of unskilful dealings with its parishioners.
Inmates in the Correctional system at least deserve a choice in terms of Buddhist organizations. And they definitely deserve better than NKT.
Khedrup
December 14, 2010 at 3:46 pm
Hi Wisdom Moon,
I think you have fallen prey to the myths/propaganda of NKT, just check the case of the 34th secondary Bodhisattva vow, which I have pointed out here: http://www.amazon.com/Bodhisattva-Vow-Practical-Helping-Others/product-reviews/0948006501/ref=cm_cr_pr_viewpnt_sr_3?ie=UTF8&showViewpoints=0&filterBy=addThreeStar
Is this vow newly created or not? It is not so explained by Je Tsongkhapa or Asanga, so who made it up?
Actual Geshe-la is following on a superficial level mainstream Gelugpa but if one dives deeper into it, there are uncommon assertions and beliefs which are made up by Geshe-la, e.g. his attitude to emphasize the total reliance on one teacher and that unqualified persons can give tantric empowerments and become “Tantric Masters”.
Why are you so sure that it is compassion which leads him to build all the NKT brand temples? Why it is not a ego trip? What are your proofs?
I didn’t say it is a megalomaniac vision but I said it could be and I criticized that people-especially researcher-believe too easily the euphemising language of the NKT. I think a researcher should be open for different perspectives and he or she should be able to question such claims a bit.
—-
You write “On the matter of the NY protests, the WSS members did not provoke the Tibetans…”, this is your claim.
But if I call someone’s mother a whore the person might feel very much provoked and the person might respond by hitting me right into the face. So who’s fault is it when I got hit into the face after having insulted another person’s mother or family members? (Think about the Zidane case during the World Soccer Games’ final game between Italy and France.)
To call in the presence of the Tibetans the Dalai Lama a liar and a hypocrite might feel as hard for them as for a Western man, when his mother or sister is called a whore, there will be some response to such accusations. That you think that there was no provocation in the behaviour of the NKT protesters shows—for me-a lack of awareness/compassion for the actual situation, and the feelings of the Tibetan people.
Actual, I think, what NKT protester did is rather vile. To give you an example: First I insult your beloved mother as a whore, then I record your angry response and show it to the public (YouTube and internetsites) claiming you are an aggressive person/mob. What would you think of that?
NKT have insulted in the presence of the Tibetans their beloved, respected leader who gives them hope and stability in their lives. Then SOME of them get angry when NKT people insult him so loudly and harshly (btw only SOME Tibetans got angry, others didn’t get angry and even stopped their fellow countrymen to shout back to the shoutings of NKT people); now NKT records the rather understandable anger of SOME Tibetans and make out of it the news that “thousands of a hostile mob of Dalai Lama followers attacked” them. This is for me a vile attempt of an insulting person to abuse his victim again, now making even himself a victim, and the other person he harmed a perpetrator.
However, I do not excuse violence be it from me or anybody else. So it was wrong from the few Tibetans to respond to the accusations by the NKT protesters by some violent acts, but it was also wrong from NKT to apply violent speech in the first place. This is my understanding. Maybe I am wrong.
It is also good to note that Western ideas of freedom of speech are not necessarily Buddhist ideas of correct speech, so what is ok in the worldly realm needn’t be ok in the religious realm. That it came to the confrontation in New York is also due to cross cultural misunderstandings, NKT people might not be aware of values of Asian or the Tibetan society and proper Buddhist conduct, some Tibetans might not have learned yet that in Western countries one can insult public persons as an expression of freedom of speech, and this has to be accepted to a certain degree.
—-
Hi Khedrub,
I was a bit shocked to see last summer how deeply NKT is established in the UK within the society even on very sensitive points like schoolkids, chaplaincy and even National Health Service (NHS). It happens that an official NHS agent advices a sick person to learn meditation because mindfulness meditations are proofed to be stabilizing for one’s health, then they give you a flyer where you can do that. You go to that group to learn meditation to improve your health or stability. What you do not know is, that the class is run by the NKT and that you will be skilfully pulled into their study groups and organisation, with all its demerits going along with cults.
That this was possible in UK, I think, is really due to that Buddhists didn’t speak up frankly and the NBO, I think, has failed too to address these issues properly. Someone said me—but this I have to verify yet—in the past, the complaints about NKT to the NBO were forwarded to the NKT within the NBO.
So in a way, the actual situation is of course a dependent arising and the situation of NKT is also largely due to that most Buddhist groups either circle around themselves or think it were inappropriate to address wrong developments straightforwardly….
In the UK there is a trial to deal with the actual situation—at least it is a start:
http://www.nktinformation.com/
tenpel
December 14, 2010 at 5:43 pm
I’d rather use this discussion for the chaplaincy issue than the protests because they have been discussed to death.
I should add that, considering all the complaints about NKT to various organizations, I have more reservations about it than other Buddhist groups.
But on a general level, I don’t think any one Buddhist denomination should have a monopoly over chaplaincy. The inmates should have a choice – it is their right. So if someone is interested in Theravada or Chan/Pure Land Mahayana where should they go? Should they only be given the option of NKT?
Similarily, if Pentecostals handled all Christian chaplaincy it would be seen as unfair. What if I’m interested in Catholicism or I come from a Greek Orthodos family?
And if I’m Hindu, should I be limited only to Vedanta or am I entitled to have access to ISKCON(Hare Krishna?, Swaminarayan and Self-Realization teachings?
When a single, charismatic group controls chaplaincy for an entire major religion, it sets a dangerous precedent. People in the corrections institutions should have the right of choice just as normal citizens do.
And it can be dangerous because the average inmate doesn’t have access to the many websites of former NKT members and others concerned about NKT’s methods of organizational control, recruitment and evangelism. They deserve access to information so they can make an informed choice about their spiritual life.
I’m not saying they shouldn’t have a right to pursue NKT, but they should also have a right not to pursue it, or to pursue it having complete infomation.
Khedrup
December 14, 2010 at 4:30 pm
Hi Khedrup,
I am an NKT Teacher and Chaplain in a hospital. I would like to reassure you that it is not NKT’s intention to ‘monopolise’ chaplaincy services. In the situation where a patient is Buddhist, I would do what I do in the case of any other religion – ask them if they would like some religious care, and if so, what denomination? If someone was, for example, a Tibetan Buddhist, I would do my utmost to contact a local Tibetan Buddhist centre and invite someone to come and minister to that person. I have to say, sadly, having seen the animosity of some Tibetan Buddhists towards the NKT, I would not be so confident of receiving such consideration if I was a patient and the chaplain was a Tibetan Buddhist.
The reason why NKT is prominent in Chaplaincy is compassion and professionalism but there is no attempt to monopolise anything.
Wisdom Moon
December 14, 2010 at 7:58 pm
The Haney article also brings up some interesting points about the organizational structure of NKT. She notes positive aspects of the organization as well as the negative in her article, so I feel it would make for an interesting discussion here, as neither group in this disupute could say her essay is “one-sided”.
“However, I also noticed Tharpas exclusive presence in the centre. I found it strange that not only did the same author write all of the books, but also that Geshe Kelsang was the exclusive author Tharpa Publications, Inc. This, coupled with the fact that a little birdie told me that monks from the centre were frequently attending Starbucks, compelled me to take on the investigation.”
Also, this statement from a senior NKT teacher the author interviewed worth discussion:
“J: Im wondering if it feels like it might conflict with the moral values of the New Kadampa Tradition if you were taking part in, or frequenting, or giving some kind of energy to a corporation that didnt uphold the same moral values as you do? Does that pose a problem for you?
K: Yeah, yeah. Well, uh I dont even uphold the morals. You know, like, I mean nobody upholds the morals of Kadampa Dharma. I mean, were just aspiring I dont know Im trying to drop judgment I think. I dont know, I just yeah .
J: Im wondering if it feels like it might conflict with the moral values of the New Kadampa Tradition if you were taking part in, or frequenting, or giving some kind of energy to a corporation that didnt uphold the same moral values as you do? Does that pose a problem for you?
K: Yeah, yeah. Well, uh I dont even uphold the morals. You know, like, I mean nobody upholds the morals of Kadampa Dharma. I mean, were just aspiring I dont know Im trying to drop judgment I think. I dont know, I just yeah .”
Khedrup
December 14, 2010 at 4:36 pm
Khedrub I completely agree with you. I lack time to go into details and the post was rather an update than some new thoughts.
What makes it really sad for me observing these things is that NKT take full advantage of the needs of the society, the good reputation of Buddhism (including the Dalai Lama’s), and the good results on research about mindfulness meditation to get people into their group (sorry better to say cult) and to get the money from the governments to spread NKT more and more to make the NKT empire bigger and bigger. Also NKT themselves deny the value of breathing meditation and are not experienced in the mindfulness meditations at all which were the basis of research and which were developed under John Kabat Zinn based on Buddhist methods.
Also NKT has never been interested in social work, it is just because it is paid and they get money for it. NKT denied the value of social work all the time when I was in the NKT. They emphasised that salvation lies solely in the teachings of KG and that social were an ordinary mundane work that has not much benefit. But if money is involved or there is a way to attract new members this seems to change the mind… then even to offer meditations for free at the university is possible.
However, maybe it is also the fault of non-NKT Buddhists who do not care too much about the needs of the society, so NKT can jump right into a gap and can exploit the situation. It was really hard for us to find qualified Buddhists who continue the prison work we once started upon request.
On the other hand to find the balance between introspection and engagement for society is also not that easy task… we are in a pioneer phase of Buddhism coming to the West, problems and wrong developments are a natural part of such a process, I think.
tenpel
December 14, 2010 at 7:51 pm
Hi TP,
Your use of the ‘cult’ word blows any pretense you have to investigating this subject objectively or to be seen to be doing so. Once again, you’re just trying to stir up negativity towards the NKT but at least you’re transparent about it. We know you by now.
I am a Chaplain and I don’t get paid to do what I do. I’m a volunteer and I work in the hospital because I care about people. Having said that, I don’t see what’s wrong with being paid to do Chaplaincy work (as thousands are) and that money going to a Dharma Centre instead of an individual.
I don’t see why you have to mis-represent the activities of the NKT by wrongly putting a money motive on everything. I’m sorry to say this, but it’s a cheap and inaccurate shot on your part.
Wisdom Moon
December 15, 2010 at 6:26 pm
Hi WM,
when I read your comment to Khedrub I remembered; yes, most NKT followers start with a good motivation, they do their best, they try to focus on to help others, they give everything they have, including their heart and life committing fully to NKT. Also there can be great benefit for others, yes. So, I felt a bit embarrassed to have only emphasized the bad sides of NKT—as far as I perceive them. In a way everybody around me when involved in NKT thought to have a good motivation, thought to be compassionate and was convinced to do only good and that every criticism against NKT is out of envy, bias, hostility or because others are followers of the Dalai Lama etc.-who is only a mundane politician without any spiritual virtue.
It is true when I use the word “cult’ this is not neutral but on a blog there is space to be a bit loose and the blog does not claim to be neutral. It cannot be neutral because it focuses on negative sides of NKT which are usually less stressed and I do not focus on sides of NKT which are felt to be good. But I state this also in the Impressum of this blog: “This blog aims to correct and balance the misinformation campaign…”.
You are saying:
“Your use of the ‘cult’ word blows any pretense you have to investigating this subject objectively or to be seen to be doing so.” Where did I pretend to investigate that subject objectively? If I didn’t pretend to do so but you (wrongly) accuse me to pretend this then wouldn’t this be a false accusation?—or as NKT puts it so nicely: “False accusation against the innocent!” … I like that idea, I am innocent, the others are wrong. (This wonderful phrase is on the main site of NKT’s official website: “Now is the time to dispel false accusations against the innocent.”) I agree, I am innocent, you accuse me wrongly, don’t you? I am good you are bad. (just kidding, just playing with that phrase, it is so wonderful black and white, without any consideration of dependent arising and karma.)
I am sorry if I offended you in my former comments. I spoke of NKT in general and what is discussed is that the NKT Kuluta Buddhist Centre has a monopol contract $75.000$ for Chaplaincy. So there is payment. It is also true what I said about NKT leaderships lack of appreciation of social work and breathing meditation, and it is also true that NKT has a huge desire for money to expand further and to cover the running costs. Your individual example does not make this untrue.
I respect your work, I respect your attitude, I do not say that your shouldn’t get money if people want to give it to you or if you want to earn it. However, if you are following an ordained life there are already some differences which have to been made in such a context… but this might not be too important now.
Actually what you do is, you try to refute the criticism about NKT in general by putting forward you own “good example”—at least how you feel and think it is a good example and blameless. This might be true in your personal case but not with respect to NKT in general. Sorry, there are just to many accounts which proof the money-and-human-resources-hungry machinery of that organisation… I think there is no need to repeat them here again.
Actual, what you do, I did also in the past. I used my own “good example” as “a pure NKT practitioner” to refute criticisms against NKT by other Buddhists. I threw in all “my honesty” and “my good motivation” and “my compassion” and “my concern for others.” I was even able by doing this to get the German Buddhist Union to remove their negative public statement about Geshe-la from their website. But actual it was naive from them to do this, a personal example-no matter how “honestly” expressed-cannot refute an exploitive, harmful or non-dharmic structure of an organisation, these are two different issues which should not be mixed.
Actual you can not turn my mind, I know how it feels to be convinced that NKT is good (and of course ‘how good am I’ and how ‘pure my motivation is’) and that critics are hostile or deluded etc. (Only after having left NKT I could recognize how pride I was, and how much I deluded myself with this ‘pure intention’ claims.)
So your conclusion is not accepted by me and it is also not be proven to be correct when you state:
“I don’t see why you have to mis-represent the activities of the NKT by wrongly putting a money motive on everything. I’m sorry to say this, but it’s a cheap and inaccurate shot on your part.”
If you wish details how human-resource-and-money-hungry NKT are, I will explain it in detail in the next days; but I think you know it for yourself, don’t you? (Maybe someone can only see this money hungry attitude of NKT after one has left NKT because one might lack the data to compare one’s existence in NKT with that of monks and nuns or Buddhist teachers/practitioners outside of NKT.)
However, thank you for your comments and please take it not personal but feel free to address points which are important for you or where you think something is stated wrongly etc.
I will be offline until Friday afternoon, so comments won’t be approved before that day.
tenpel
December 15, 2010 at 7:24 pm
Dear Wisdom moon,
I am heartened that you would refer the hypothetical patient to a Tibetan Buddhist for chaplaincy – it says a lot about you. However, generalizing that all NKT teachers would do the same, and Tibetan Buddhist teachers probably wouldn’t, is just speculation and not really useful.
The issue of monopoly still remains. No one organization from Buddhism should have a majority of their teachers in hospitals, etc.
While SOME of the motivating factors may be compassion and professionalism, if you read the essay by the Queen’s university student, you will see that the main teacher at the Kingston centre (K.Thekchen)said the two major sources of their income were course fees and the chaplaincy contract. If indeed the entire chaplaincy contract with corrections Canada is going to NKT, that would mean $75,000 in revenue. If it is one of main two funding sources for the centre it would be disingenuous to claim that fundraising is not an important part of the motivation in providing such services.
I maintain it is irresponsible for Corrections Canada to award the entire contract to ONE Buddhist organization. There are many forms of Buddhism and the people who award the contract should be aware of that and try to provide Buddhist teachers in the prisons from a variety of different traditions.
Khedrup
December 14, 2010 at 9:16 pm
Tenzin-la, I’m sorry for the harsh wording of my address to you. Sometimes when typing you don’t realize how things look till’ you see them posted.
Khedrup
December 14, 2010 at 9:17 pm
Dear Khedrub-la, no problem. I didn’t feel your words to be harsh, I felt them to be correct. Its my fault that I wrote the post in a great hurry and only based on a very rough glance of the updates—being a bit aware of this fault, in the last sentence of the post I did apologize already. I am happy that you criticize it and that you take time to balance it! Thanks a lot, t
tenpel
December 15, 2010 at 2:16 pm
The chaplaincy thing is a popular method among several Buddhist New Religious Movements in the UK, not just the NKT. Its point is at least in part to gradaully bestow legitimacy and the image of being mainstream by association with legitimate public bodies of lasting stature-its the same thing behind education programs as well.
In the UK, the Network of Buddhist Organizations lost one of its most important members (the Buddhist Society) over this issue. The Buddhist Society, who have been losing status down the years due to being run by a a bunch of old grammar school toffs and not having any legitimate connection to any Asian tradition, also tried to monopolise this via its memebership of the Network of Buddhist Organizations. However, when the Ministry of Defence became aware that the NKT were involved with the NBO, they back pedalled on offering them the position. Seeing its chance for glory, Ron Maddox and his power seeking offspring at the Buddhist Society resigned from the NBO and offered their own services-they swiftly took over control of chaplaincy in the armed forces. Actually, it is on record that the Home Office made Angulimala Chaplaincy its official representative some years ago. However, Maddox, who has powerful friends via the old boys netwrok and through fair amount of thorouglhy Machiavellian manouvering, moved the Buddhist Soceity into the driving seat.
When the minister was questioned about who had made the decision that Ron Maddox of the Buddhist society was the voice of Buddhism in Britain and the last word was his, his response that no record had been kept of the agreement. So now Angulimala is doing the fine job its done for years on the prison side, and the Buddhist Society have taken over on the defence chaplaincy side, thus establishing their own legitimacy and psoition of power in the establishmnet for some years to come. Recognizing that they couldnt get their teeth into thechaplaincy field through the NBO, the NKT left and now continue to promote themselves actively themselves in this field.
My question is this. If I was a follower of any religion, would I want my last breaths to be spent alongside someone who might be praying to what some people consider to be an evil spirit?
Would I want someone who had been screaming hate slogans at my guru to be administering the last rites for me?
None of these people are fit to perform any sort of rituals other than basic prayers. Lets hope we dont have fools trying to transfer consciousness (after reading how to do it on the net) or reading them the Tibetan Book of the Dead.
Who sets the criteria that decides when someone is qualified to act as a chaplain . It wouldnt read someting along the lines of ‘Your prison chapalin for this evening is Kelsang Schmelsang, a meditiation teacher of “several” yeas experience’? I hope not. Lord, bless us that we be protected from naive zealot charlatans during our crucial final moments of this life,
I cna hear it now ‘Just remember.Geshe-la says everything is dependant arising and therfore empty’ Visualize him above your head, red in colour, with two horns and a pitned tail and trident-Phat!
LOL
December 17, 2010 at 9:56 pm
@lol. thank you for your input.
with respect to the help given as a chaplain things are dependent on different factors. i think an individual with compassion and skills who appreciates the other human being more than the own school of thought and the own or the own group’s agenda or belief-system, and if the person has a genuine motivation then this person might help quite well another person with chaplaincy no matter from what Buddhist school the person derives or if not a religious person at all. However, when DS practice is involved the person might harm the other without knowing it…
what i find sad or strange is that NKT has never been engaged in social work and emphasised strongly its ‘weak merits’ and also did usually not care well (or at all) for their own sick people(!) but as soon as it helps the organisation to get into a government body and/or to increase the reputation and to accumulate money/followers, then even those ‘mundane’ and less virtuous activities like social work become very important for NKT… and of course those activities are done only with a pure motivation, out of compassion.
tenpel
December 17, 2010 at 10:42 pm
Dear TP,
You say: “However, when DS practice is involved the person might harm the other without knowing it…”
I find it sad that you are propagating the same unjustified superstitions as the Dalai Lama. Such superstitious attitudes arise from not following the genuine teachings of the Gelugpa Lineage Gurus and are poisoning Buddhism. They amount to nothing more than scare tactics like the fear of getting swine flu and other vagaries. Next you’ll be telling me you are wearing a talisman to ward off evil spirits! This highlights yet more of the double standards of the Dalai Lama – he replies on spirits for advice whilst wrongly accusing Dorje Shugden practitioners of spirit worship, and then tries to establish dialogue with scientists. There are so many double standards and contradictions in Tibetan Buddhism these days because of political pollution. It’s most sad.
Wisdom Moon
December 18, 2010 at 1:56 am
Dear LOL,
Your words are emotive but inaccurate. As I already explained above, if someone is a Buddhist in hospital and they require religious care from someone of their own tradition, such a person will be sought. There is no way that NKT Chaplains will force themselves on Buddhists who do not want their services. People always have freedom of choice.
As to qualification as a Chaplain, each tradition should be free to decide their own criteria and qualifications as long as the National Health Service of each country is happy with the service they are getting. Such criteria would be, for example, that the person is a sincere practitioner of that tradition for a certain period of time, is on a study programme, has compassion and people skills, has completed a Chaplaincy training course, etc. Such criteria can be set and assessed within each tradition.
Wisdom Moon
December 18, 2010 at 1:46 am
Forgive my spelling
LOL
December 17, 2010 at 9:58 pm
Surely someone has had the good sense to contact correctional services in canada??
LOL
December 17, 2010 at 10:00 pm
@WM, thank you that you show how you really think. People will make up their own minds.
If it is superstitious for you that someone has the conviction that Shugden is a harmful spirit, then it should be also superstitious for you to believe he is a Buddha because the ‘argument’ (propagating unjustified superstitions) is applicable also to your own position that Shugden would be a Buddha—there is no proof that he is, only an assumption by some. I think you would not hesitate also to label Hitler as a Buddha when this had been propounded by some Gelug lamas. (Actual I heard NKT people really arguing why Hitler could have been a Buddha…)
You say:
“Next you’ll be telling me you are wearing a talisman to ward off evil spirits!”
Indeed I have a protection. A Nyingma Yogi with clairvoyance gave it to me because he saw with his yogic power that I would need such a protection. He is btw also—like all the vast majority of all the Kagyue and Nyingma masters, as well as many Sakya and Gelug masters—very convinced that Shugden is harmful. Since Geshe-la is not even able to protect his own nuns from being abused by his successors I follow the people who have shown to be reliable, as well as my own investigations, observations, and reasonings. If this is all superstitious for you, so be it.
I don’t see a double standard in compassion for sentient beings and warning about the demerits of Shugden practice, actually compassion and wisdom should do that if the practice is harmful. However, I see double standards within NKT, where ethics and compassion are highly talked about but rarely practised—e.g. the sexual abuse of nuns by two ‘great’ successors of Geshe-la, which the latter tolerated as long as it didn’t become public in the internet. For me such an attitude shows only ‘compassion’ for the organisation but not for human beings.
However, all this has been said already. Maybe we can protect our minds by refusing to become polemical?
tenpel
December 18, 2010 at 3:24 pm
Hello there.
Wisdom moon- Talismans are employed in all Buddhist traditions, from Vajrayana to Pure Land to the most austere of the Theravada forest traditions. Please don’t try to frame their use to further the NKT agenda of making Tibetan Buddhism seem backward.
Training- I don’t think it should be up to each tradition should be free to determine their own standards for qualified teachers. Most teachers in the NKT don’t even have close to the standard of education and practice than those in other traditions. Let’s compare:
Theravada bhikkhus (and increasingly bhikkhunis) must spend the first five years after their full ordination in a state of “Nissaya” which is Pali for “Dependence”.During this time they must stay at the temple with a monastic of at least ten years ordination in order to learn “Dhamma-Vinaya” the teaching and the training. In the Western Forest Sangha even before this five years a two year noviciate period is required. After 10 years of full ordination one becomes a Thera in the case of men and Theri in the case of women, and is considered a fully qualified teacher. http://www.watpahnanachat.org/ordaining.php
In Chinese Buddhism, I am most familiar with DRBA so I will outline teacher training there. All those who aspire to become monastics in the Dharma Realm system first spend a year as a layperson at the City of Ten Thousand Buddhas in California, and then may take a “novice trainee” ordination, followed by novice ordination and then full ordination, which involves a three month training period in which the Vinaya is memorized.
To qualify as a teacher in the Dharma Realm Buddhist association a monastic is required to complete 8000 hours of training in various areas of philosophy, liturgy and practice. In addition regular repentance ceremonies are required, monks and nuns rise at 4:30 am and participate in 4 hours of group practice and 5 hours of work daily. They take one meal a day.
Laypeople have more freedom in their lifestyle, but are still required to complete 8,000 hours of training but do not study Vinaya (monastic regulations) http://cttbusa.org/sltp/SLTP8.pdf
In the FPMT, new requirements are being implemented and generally a resident teacher will have to have completed at least the basic program, which takes at least five years and requires studying at a centre with a resident Geshe, as homestudy is not considered sufficient qualification to be a certified FPMT teacher. http://www.fpmt.org/education/programs/basic-program.html
In addition there is a mandatory retreat requirement of I believe 3 months. The subjects studied include the major Gelug Philosophical areas:
Lam Rim, Bodhisattva bhumis, Lojong, Sublime Continuum, Mind and Cognition, Tenents, Ornament of Realization, 70 Topics and finally Grounds and Paths of Mantra. There is also a more in-depth masters program.
All those granting tantric empowerments at FPMT centres are Geshes or Lamas who have completed Tantric college (in addition, in 90% of cases, to a Geshe degree) and the required deity retreats.
In the Shambhala lineage becoming a teacher is also a demanding process. Students must complete the training programs in warriorship at their centre and then go onto the international warrior assembly. After this they must attend the Sutrayana seminary, which requires more dathuns (one month sittings) and a certain amount of hours of sitting meditation and study. After this is completed, along with a 5 day shamatha retreat, the student may attend Vajrayana seminary, and receive the ngondro transmissions. After the ngondro transmissions are received, the 400,000 divded into prostrations, Vajrasattva, mandala and guru yoga must be completed. Only then can one receive the Vajrayogini initiation. After accumulating 1,300,000 Vajrayogini mantras one can take Chakrasamvara initiation, which opens the door to all tantric practices and retreats in the tradition.
Minimum requirement for any teacher in Shambhala is all the steps up to the Vajrayana Seminary- at least 5 years (with two months of full practice in each of those) if you are working according to my friend in the tradition.
AND IN NKT???
Hard to tell, as most teachers are billed as “close students of Geshe Kelsang Gyatso” even if they’ve never spoken to him personally and only attended a one week seminar or festival where he teaches 5 half day sessions. The NKT site “New Kadampa Truth” lists only vague averements about “some experience of the teaching” and admits “some have been practicing for a few years”.
A former NKT member I met at HH Dalai Lama’s teachings in Dharamsala told me in fact this is sometimes as little as one year, especially in a place where the centre is new, as resident teachers are under extreme pressure to establish satellite study groups.
And yes, NKT students do phowa. In the Tibetan tradition, the minimum requirement for a performer of phowa is a three year retreat. In the gelug tradition, study in a tantric college is recommended in addition to that.
In closing, it’s pretty obvious that in comparison to any respectable and established Buddhist groups’ requirements for teachers, NKT’s teachers have far fewer solid qualifications.
Khedrup
December 19, 2010 at 12:06 am
Hi Khedrup
As far as ‘demon repelling’ talismans is concerned, come on, this is the 20th Century. You can’t discuss with neuroscientists one minute and ward off demons with bits of string the next minute. Of course there are other beings such as gods, spirits, nagas and so forth, but since when did they ever become an superstitious obsession in the way that they have become for some practitioners of Tibetan Buddhism? The Dalai Lama is obsessed with ‘keeping the Tibetan tradition free from spirit worship’ while at the same time relying upon spirits while making decisions. More crazy contradictions!
The best protection from all harm is bodhichitta. The best protection from harm is to avoid abandoning Dharma by criticising Mahayana traditions.
I rejoice in the study and practice commitments of other traditions, this is wonderful. Since this is not a competition, I will simply say that there are also many study and retreat commitments in Kadampa Buddhism and many senior Teachers have been studying and practising for twenty or thirty years. NKT study programmes range from five to over twenty years – ultimately to a lifetime. NKT Centres have ten weeks of retreat a year. What’s important in this age, where people are very busy with many commmitments,and most are lay people with families is that one doesn’t make the Dharma inaccessible with excessively rigorous commitments that alienate and possible discourage practitioners. A skilful balance is required in the presentation of the Dharma where there is intellectual rigour and integrity but also practical application. The most important practice is ‘always rely upon a happy mind alone’ in the words of Geshe Chekhawa. The most important thing is to train your mind in every moment. This is the real test and the real qualification of a sincere practitioner.
Wisdom Moon
December 19, 2010 at 8:55 am
Oddly the Sumeru Books blog pulled the article on NKT and Chaplaincy. Odd.
Khedrup
December 19, 2010 at 2:19 am
Hello there-
I find it amusing that you mention “not criticizing other Mahayana traditions” when in the paragraph above you did just that. Remember too, the bodhisattva vow not to criticize the Pali/Theravada traditions. My point is that amulets are used in all Buddhist traditions – though you try to portray it as a practice that is a superstitious Tibetan throwback. Perhaps you don’t have knowledge or experience of the other traditions, so I provided you with information.
Do NKT members not wear “bits of red string”? Did the Shugden oracle not spend time doing trance divinations at NKT centres between 1994 and 1998?
The miracle of HH Dalai Lama is exactly that he can speak about divinations one minute, and particle physics the next. He can engage with the experience of a yak-herding nomad, or a nuclear physicist. He engages with each being according to their unique causes and conditions – that is what bodhisattvas do!
“To all countries whatsoever, to the ends of space,
They go and speak the dharma with extensive analogies…”
“Knowing that beings’ faculties are not the same,
And their measureless desires and understandings each distinct,
Clearly understanding all the many different realms:
Those who enter everywhere walk this way”
Avatamsaka Sutra, Ten Practices Chapter
His Holiness fulfills these aspects of a bodhisattva. He is just ask comfortable as speaking with an autorickshaw driver, chef, farmer as he is speaking with eminent scientists like David Bohm, Stephen Chu, Arthur Zajonc or Robert Livingston. I understand that NKT may feel threatened by the scope of His Holiness’ dialogues with well-known international figures, and so tries to belittle him at every turn. But the fact of the matter is, HHDL is interested in engaging with human society on in a broad and encompassing way, and isn’t afraid to challenge himself with new ideas and paradigms. He different that many teachers who limit themselves to their small flock, where they can never be challenged or really questioned.
This is not a competition. This is a discussion of qualifications – making sure people are trained before putting them out in the field. While there are a few experienced NKT teachers, how many people have actually completed the entire TTP or even the FP? Is completion required to be a resident teacher?
THis is not about making dharma inaccessible to busy people with families, you are trying to re-frame my argument. We are not talking about ordinary practitioners, we are talking about TEACHERS. There is a big difference between practicing and teaching others. Teachers need to have solid qualifications in order to ensure that people don’t misunderstand more important concepts, like emptiness.
This is why I, for example, chose to pursue translation instead of teaching. I’ve only been a monk for 6 years and despite being a Buddhist for many more haven’t studied as much as I’d like. And my mind isn’t subdued enough. I’d feel like a complete hypocrite giving formal classes and selling myself as a “teacher”. First, I need to train and purify my mind. This is a long process!
Buddhism should be open to everyone, but it’s followers should be well and extensively trained. It they don’t possess the dharma of realization, and least they should possess a modicum of the dharma of scripture.
In the Gelug tradition this means familiarity with the classical Indian texts Lama Tzongkhapa recommended. Alternatively, one can go into extensive Lam Rim retreat to accumulate realizations.
In Kagyu one one complete ngondro, study both Ornament of Realization and Uttaratantra (according to advice of HH Karmapa). Then one would do a three year retreat.
I realize that these are lofty qualifications. But my opinion is that rather than mushrooming centres and branch groups, one should focus on training qualified instructors who have demonstrated real knowledge. This will mean slower growth. But in countries where Buddhism was established, that’s exactly how it happened.
It also means having a monastic sangha (or laypeople in retreat) who are supported by the community. Having monks and nuns go out and work is antithetical to the Buddha’s purpose in establishing the Vinaya rules. This was a problem in numerous Vajrayana orders, not just NKT.
Fortunately, HHDL private office now has strict guidelines after ordination that include several years spent full-time in a monastery. Shambhala at Gampo Abbey has built funding to support monks and nuns to be supported full-time, and FPMT is working on establishing funding for the basic requisites for monks and nuns through the Lama Yeshe Sangha fund.
NKT says go out and work, wear the robes in the evenings. But there’s no way this can lead to top-quality sangha.
Khedrup
December 19, 2010 at 3:50 pm
Hi Khedrup,
I fear this exchange is becoming lengthy and not very productive. Firstly, I did not criticise a Mahayana tradition, I criticised the superstitious attitudes of some who claim to be practising. Everything the Buddha taught is completely beyond reproach but talismans, spirit consultations and doughballs don’t cut it :-)
It’s best to rely on wisdom, not superstition.
If you choose to see contradiction as some indication of high realization, fair enough, we’ve all got choice.
Actually, no, there’s not a big difference between practising and teaching other because one is necessary before the other. There are stories in the scriptures about beings who were very highly studious (such as Devadatta) but who did not, according to ordinary appearance, have control over their minds. Realization is superior to knowledge always.
I rejoice in your ordination and practices, how wonderful! I totally agree with Teachers should at least have a modicum of scripture but how realized do you need to be before you can benefit others by receiving your Guru’s blessings and teaching the Dharma? Actually, I’ve found that teaching is a great method to improve knowledge and experience of Dharma. In my experience, you receive very special blessings that really help your own practice when you teach. There are two lines of thought when it comes to teaching. The first is that you need to study for 30 years and have completed numerous meditation retreats before you can even think about teaching. The second is that, living beings are suffering and so there’s no time to waste. Provided that you have faith, you engage in Guru yoga, you have knowledge of the subject your’re going to teach and some experience, you can help anyone by giving Dharma…and giving is the best form of receiving too. This is my experience and what I would advocate, but each tradition is different and we each have to practise in accordance with what our Guru recommends, hence there are differences, which is also fine.
I disagree that going to work as an ordained person doesn’t produce top quality Sangha. As in all cases, it depends what you’re doing with your mind. You might be ordained and be supported by the Sangha and not have to work because you want to dodge the responsibility of having a job and paying the bills. On the other hand, working for their Gurus didn’t do Marpa, Dromtompa, Geshe Jayulwa and other practitioners who didn’t do much formal meditation any harm! in fact, they gained spontaneous realizations due to their devotion and pure view. As usual, it depends on what going on in your mind, not on your external actions and apparent lifestyle.
In summary, my feeling is that we all need to practise in accordance with our Guru’s instructions without feeling the need to criticise other traditions because they do not practice as we do.
Wisdom Moon
December 19, 2010 at 4:49 pm
@WM you might be a victim of NKT’s approach to rely merely on the books of Kelsang Gyatso and not to read the Buddhist scriptures or Sutras otherwise you would know that spirits, nagas, demons, predictions etc. are part of the Buddhist canon. I fear you would not hesitate to call the Buddha superstitious too recognizing what he said, did and taught. Funny to see that NKT give themselves a “rational approach” in order to mock about the Dalai Lama and Tibetan Buddhism making them modern and more enlightened but can not recognize their own superstitions and superficial understanding of things. If NKT is more rational why are you putting hairs of Kelsang Gyatso in the statues? Please explain this in a rational manner what is the use of this and why this is not superstitious.
tenpel
December 19, 2010 at 5:31 pm
Dear TP, I might be, but I’m not. I’m fully aware of these other realms, as I said in my post above, and it may surprise you, but I’ve also read the sutras and other Buddhist books. My point is, someone who can claim that Buddha Dorje Shugden is responsible for the lack of progress in attaining Tibetan independence is a very superstitious person, I think, or a very devious one! I think we all know who I’m talking about. This is not Buddhism and not what Buddha taught. Negative karma and lack of merit is responsible for the lack of fulfilment of our wishes – THAT is what Buddha taught, but the Dalai Lama superstitiously seems to think it’s due to something else and never mentions what Buddha said about this. Throwing doughballs to determine whether someone can or cannot do a Dharma practice is also pure superstition. All Dharma is of benefit, so there’s no question of whether someone should do the practice or not, especially if they have a strong karmic connection with it. This is what wisdom says. Wisdom and superstition are opposites and for as long as the Dalai Lama relies on superstition and not wisdom, he’s the cause for Buddhism to degenerate, not Dorje Shugden.
I’m sure you’re very familiar with relics and their holiness. The teeth, bones, hair and so forth of holy beings are revered and the deeper one’s faith, the greater the blessing – that’s why Geshe Kelsang’s hair is put in statues, because it’s an object of veneration for those who have faith in Geshe Kelsang. For others, maybe such things seem unimportant. As for filling statues and stupas, there is a lineage for doing these things, it’s not superstitious, and it increases the blessing power of these objects as the actual wisdom beings are invited to dissolve into these holy objects, making them even more holy. Therefore, it’s not superstitious to perform these activities. They are a million miles away from doughballs and oracles.
Wisdom Moon
December 20, 2010 at 10:15 pm
I see maybe you should study Tibetan history, Tibetan Society and the sectarian mode of the practice to understand that the practice indeed undermines the unity of the Tibetans because it was used to establish Gelug supremacy over other schools and to put down other schools. There is enough material also on this blog about this. So your lack of awareness of history and Tibetan society is the fault of the Dalai Lama, I assume? Tibetans need unity for their aims and Shugden was largely abused to undermine that and by this the freedom struggle of the Tibetans. Instead of accusing the Dalai Lama it would be better to question the persons who (ab)used Shugden for sectarian and dividing purposes.
Since you have no understanding of mo and doughball and it is up to the personal experience to judge if this is a valid means or not you can call this supersition, but to offer offerings to Shugden you can not see and to think he is a Buddha what you actual don’t know is then also superstition. Also note that the Dalai Lama placed his judgement of the dangers of Shugden not on daughball alone but used different methods to investigate this issue (see von Brück’s research) Sadly your NKT fellows have not only deleted those balancing passages from Wikipedia but also removed the link to that research article through such actions NKT keep themselves as well as others dis-informed. The text about how the Dalai Lama investigated the Shugden issue starts saying: “In order to investigate the canonical status of Shugden and his practice, he applies basically three methodological devices or arguments: (1) historical evidence, (2) political reason, (3) spiritual insight.” For details read that paper, please. Also note that he has the full support of his judgement about Shugden from all the great lamas from all Tibetan Buddhist schools—so he is not at all the only one who sees it that way. You can only claim the Dalai Lama would be superstitious in his judgement of Shugden because you lack knowledge or you are utter misinformed by the internal and external NKT propaganda. For me your statements show only a deep lack of knowledge and understanding. For more thoughts how Shugden is seen as undermining Tibetan unity see here: http://shugdenbuddhism.com/unity.html
Maybe you are superstitious and your Guru is the cause if degeneration of the Buddhadharma, praying to a spirit you can not see, taking refuge in a spirit and thinking he is Buddha? How did this ‘Buddha Shudgen’ protect Samden, Elliot, the abused nuns, the mislead monks who were encouraged to also have sexual intercourse with other nuns, NKT and Geshe-la??? Maybe you/NKT/GKG rely too much on this being? Where has it led you? A big organisations with tons of problems and unhealthy relationships, totally isolated from the Buddhist world. Not any high teacher supporting the organisation or what they do, no high lama praising the NKT or Geshe-la, either silence or criticism…
I agree wisdom and confusion are opposites, it becomes more difficult if one thinks one were wiser than the wise and if one lacks the means for proper investigation ;-)
What makes a hair of Geshe-la a relict and gives it holiness? Why is he a holy being? Why is it not superstitious to believe that he is holy? Why his hairs are holy? If you have no reason for your assumptions that he / the hairs are holy then, I think, we have to say you are superstitious too. (BTW, in the Tibetan tradition it is seen as wrong to put the hair of a living lama into a statue. A teacher whom I asked about this and to whom I said that this is done in NKT was a bit shocked to hear that and said this should not be done as long as the lama is alive and it is not good for the teacher either to do so. So forget about a lineage to put hairs of a living lama in statues. In general relics are taken only from dead bodies and only if there are special signs during cremation and in the ashes. However, there are some cases of spontaneously manifesting relics in a pure spiritual environment etc. so the subject is also vast.)
I do not see how to believe that the hair of Geshe-la has power to bless you is not superstitious and that this would be a “million miles away from doughballs and oracles”, some believe in hairs, some in oracles and doughball—also Geshe-la relied on oracles e.g., as Khedrub said already, using it to find the rebirth of his mother. The Shugden Oracle, the uncle of Geshe-la btw, was different times in Manjishri Institute and he also invoked Shugden there in the past. After the oracle left Geshe-la and moved to the Dalai Lama, it became out of fashion in NKT to rely on oracles. Then having no oracle anymore and some other conditions it is easy now to play the role of the “rational Buddhists”—ha ha ha ;-) Maybe Geshe-la also used daughball but it didn’t function for him? Who knows. But now having renounced two Tibetan spiritual folk practices for what he has either no means any more (the oracle left him) or what might not have functioned for him, does not poof him or NKT to be less superstitious as their perceived opponents.
You have successfully turned the discussion about the NKT Chaplaincy and Research on NKT into the Shugden issue and your judgments about the Dalai Lama. Back to topic please.
tenpel
December 20, 2010 at 11:13 pm
Dear Wisdommoon,
I am on vacation until mid-January so I have time to engage, after nearly two years of silence while in India. So, I will continue to point out the double standard you have employed in your debate.
Yes, but do the NKT not wear red strings, fill Rinchen Shugden cabinets with gold necklaces, and did they not host at NKT centres an oracle? Or put the guru’s hair in statues as Tenzin-la mentions above? Did Geshe Kelsang not use an oracle to find the “rebirth” of his mother? Why do you feel comfortable criticizing others for practices your own guru and vajra siblings also engage in? Isn’t this a blatant double standard on your part?
My concern goes beyond not criticizing. Do you really feel, for example, comfortable enough with the Madhyamika-Prasangika view of emptiness to explain it without confusing others? It could be very dangerous if one isn’t experienced. Because it forms in many ways the crux of Gelug teachings, in the Gelug monasteries the monks and nuns spend hours debating, refining their knowledge of Madhyamika under the supervision of teachers, before trying to explain it to the public.
Because NKT sangha wear Tibetan robes (no, Lama Tzongkhapa did not invent them) their potential misunderstandings reflect on all of Buddhism.
When NKT sangha give tantric initiations without having trained and completed the mantra requirements that tradition dictates, this can dilute tantra and cause confusion, which, because they wear Tibetan robes, reflects on all of us.
As for Lord Marpa, he traveled to India three times and spend years of training with his teachers over a period of years. In addition he studied under Drokmi the translator for fifteen years, studying classical Tibetan and sanskrit. He received a vision of Hevajra’s consort and blessing from Naropa before he taught – a different situation than someone working in an office 9 hours a day, taking three classes a week, and doing an hour and a half of meditation practice.
It was not “spontaneous realization” that came from just pure view. It was preceded by scholarship in sanskrit and Tibetan, hours spent translating the tantras from tantra into his language, arduous journeys and piligrimages to India, hours of meditation, and initiation from a student of Vajradhara himself.
Dromtonpa founded a monastery and demonstrated an example by dedicating tremendous energy to ensuring monks would be supported to study and practice full time, without having to worry about earning a living. He himself spent years in retreat, using a stick and a hide to build a sort of teepee and staying under there. He spent years training directly under Atisha before giving his own discourses. Dromtonpa was also prophesized by Venerable Tara.
It’s different working full-time for a Guru than it is working in a modern corporation in order to finance a centre, and taking a couple of weekly classes. It’s clear the examples you listed above worked in Buddhist related enterprises and had a great deal of textual and retreat experience.
Remember that this discussion started with the chaplaincy issue, and you stated each tradition was in charge of establishing its own standard for teachers. My point is that with a huge gap in the amount and intensity of training, it is unwise to accept this at face value, and Corrections Canada should demand some sort of standard to be followed by all Buddhist traditions.
Khedrup
December 19, 2010 at 7:06 pm
Hi Khedrup,
The problem that both you and TP have is that you are criticising something that doesn’t exist – whatever knowledge you have of NKT is out of date. NKT never did rely on oracles (yes, Geshe Kelsang did invite his uncle, Kuten Lama to England, and he did perform some invocations, but that was 13 or so years ago, and now we have an internal rules not to rely on oracles). NKT does not create Rinchen Shrines, this is a thing of the Lama Yeshe years. We do have blessings cords for Amitayus empowerments, HYT empowerments and so forth but these are traditional cords blessed by Buddhas. Your talismans for warding off Dorje Shugden are based on a wrong view that Dorje Shugden is a spirit – it’s mere superstition based on confusion.
Yes, I do feel comfortable with the Madhyamamika Prasangika view, enough to explain it to others. I’ve studied and taught ‘Guide to the Middle Way’ by Chandrakirti many times. I feel that Geshe Kelsang’s explanations of emptiness are extraordinary, eschewing jargon and, in the latter explanations, all the confusion that comes from the study of tenets. The explanations are clear, practical, modern and definitive. With such guidance, I don’t fear introducing misunderstandings. There are far worse misinderstandings of the middle way introduced by so called Madhyamikas like Gorampa than could ever be introduced by NKT!
If you’re worried about NKT introducing confusion about tantra, you obviously haven’t read Geshe Kelsang’s crystal clear explanations of tantra.
I do find your assumptions – that NKT might introduce misunderstandings that will reflect on Tibetan Buddhism – a little arrogant. No doubt Je Rinpoche had to put up with this too when he established the Ganden tradition. The Dalai Lama has already introduced misunderstandings that reflect harmfully on NKT and make it difficult to spread Dharma – for example, that Dorje Shugden is a spirit and it degenerates Buddhism into spirit worship, while all the time relying on the spirit Nechung! This is incredible double standards. With such problems being introduced by the Dalai Lama, I don’t think you need to worry that NKT’s clear, relevant and modern explanations of Dharma are likely to reflect badly on you. You’ve got far worse problems to deal with that are very possibly going to destroy Tibetan Buddhism in the long run – namely, the Lama Policy of mixing of Dharma with politics.
Wisdom Moon
December 20, 2010 at 11:36 pm
Wisdommoon,
My point is that NKT rules are broken by those who are high enough up, such as when the founder discovered the “tulku” of his mother. You are reframing the argument from talking about talismans in general to the Shugden issue – this was a bait and deflect technique common with many posters on the web. I didn’t mention Shugden once in the context of that debate.
You also say NKT NEVER relied on oracles, but then contradict yourself in the next sentence, saying 12 years ago Kuten performed divinations (which were actually trances). And the NKT did rely on this. I spoke directly with a person present at one of these sessions – questions about the running of the centre and how to “flourish Kadam Dharma” were asked and implemented.
“Traditional cords blessed by Buddhas” might be deemed superstitious or not modern by most people in the West. You pick and choose what you deem superstitious, but cling to rituals simply because you have been taught them by your particlar tradition. This kind of mind is what is known as Chok su lhung wa in Tibetan- “falling to a biased direction”.
The “Lama Policy” of mixing dharma with politics is a line straight out of NKT literature. Have you ever lived in Tibetan communities abroad? I have lived in both the Bylakuppe and Dharamsala settlements and can tell you that there are vibrant engagements with democracy going on. Your attempt to make the Tibetans seem like either powerless peasants who don’t know they’re being misled or superstitious boors in unfair and could be considered racist, in my opinion.
For example, HH Dalai Lama’s continuing withdrawal from political matters, and the election for Ganden Tripa coming up with Harvard graduates, women, and people from border regions of Tibet running for the highest position in the exile government. I just left Dharamsala about 7 weeks ago and the political debate was lively.
HHDL for example engages fully with the Tibetan Youth Congress, even though they have very publicly disagreed with his middle way approach and decided to aim for full independence. Non of the lama policies cracking down on dissenters took place, and the TYC is still a widely respected entity in the exile communities of India and Nepal.
HH Karmapa, in a teaching I attended in Bodh Gaya, has eschewed any political role and said he wants to play a role in only the spiritual and cultural arenas of the Tibetan cause.
If you want to understand the dangerous nature of Shugden practice, you really need to be able to read Tibetan, because the full rituals and the complete version of the Yellow Book have yet to be translated.
NKT has reframed Shugden – even changed the way his face looks on the statues, and they promote its practice to Westerners who come into contact with them at Starbucks and Bookshops, with no knowledge of Tibetan culture and usually little knowledge of Buddhism (there are very few seasoned practitioners who gravitate towards NKT).
These people are, in my opinion, not given all the information regarding Shugden and Je Phabonkhapa, who, although his writings are profound was also extremely sectarian, saying Dzongchen yogis would go to hell in volume Cha of his collected works.
I have spoken with several Nyingma monks who tell me the Nyingma and Kagyud opposition to Shugden predates by many, many years HH the 14th Dalai Lama’s decision.
But please, stop trying to direct this debate towards Shugden, as we are discussion chaplaincy and training.
If you have studied Tzongkhapas works as it seems you have, you know his rigorous pre-requistes for tantra (unless those are not included in Geshe Kelsang’s commentaries). In Lam Rim Chenmo and Ngak Rim Chenmo (stages of the path of mantra), the required knowledge of sutra, mantra retreats, fire pujas et al. is given that is required to perform wanchens and jenangs.
I know from reading a blog that these pre-requisites are not honoured in most cases by NKT instructors who give what are labeled as “empowerments” or “blessing empowerments” to many neophyte practitioners. Unilaterally deciding that “adapting Je Rinpoche’s tradition” means manking everything easier – ordination, empowerment, giving empowerment, studying short commentaries instead of the Indian treatises – is mind blowing to me.
Lama Tzongkhapa was very clear that study of the Classics of the Indian tradition was crucial to understanding. He didn’t direct students to study only his works. In text after text he directed them to the Indian treatises for full understanding.
Relying on one lama’s commentaries of Je Rinpoche’s commentaries of the commentaries just doesn’t cut it. If you are going to broadly proclaim to follow Tzongkhapa, should you not do as he says?
The difference between Shugden and Nechung is this. Nechung is never worshipped as an enlightened being. All his rituals are in the context of subjucating him under yidams such as Vajrabhairava. Shugden is said to be a fully enlightened being. While in the past 10 years NKT may not use the shugden oracles, Shugden supporters in the Tibetan community still do. So, do you realize what this means?? They are saying an enlightened being can communicate through an oracle! This is extremely dangerous to the fabric of dharma in a way that someone who doesn’t have direct experience of Tibetan culture might find difficult to understand.
Khedrup
December 21, 2010 at 12:50 am
Hi Khedrup,
I’m going to keep this short because I do feel this is not a very productive discussion – it’s really just like two people banging their heads against a brick wall, being on the opposite sides of the wall!
For some people, belief in anything you cannot see is superstitious. TP claimed above that making offerings to Dorje Shugden and believing he is a Buddha without knowing is superstitious, in which case we might as well throw out the whole of Buddhism which is based on such beliefs. How do you know that Buddha is enlightened, etc? This is seen as superstitious by some but can be proven by inferential valid cognition by others. For me, what is superstitious is relying on external things like Tulkus, Oracles, mo and talismans instead of wisdom and compassion. If we are Buddhists, we must believe that the most important thing to do is to develop the virtuous qualities within our own mind as our ultimate refuge. To rely upon external agencies to make decision and to be seen to be doing this, the Dalai Lama is degenerating Buddhism. Why can’t he rely on lamrim, lojong and vajrayana mahamudra? Aren’t Buddha’s teachings good enough? There are no instances in Lama Tsongkhapa’s life where in relied on any of these things. Buddhas don’t have to rely upon these.
I hope you’re right about Tibetan society changing. It’s not really my concern because I live in a democracy, not a theocracy. My only concern is how the mixing of Dharma and politics that is happening there is going to affect Buddhism globally However, I must say that for as long as people are not free to practise Dorje Shugden and are persecuted for doing so, how can you claim that there is democracy in society? There is ‘democracy with Tibetan characteristics’ – yep, the Dalai Lamas is completely in charge as usual.
Why shouldn’t the practice of Buddhism change in accordance with the culture and needs of those who are practising it? Why shouldn’t Dharma be clear, simple and practical? This is not blind blowing to me, it’s actually the characteristic of Je Tsongkhapa’s tradition. Surely you can practise Dharma without having to study pramanavartika, abhisamayalamkara or any of the philosophical texts taught on the Geshe programme? These days, most people don’t have time for all that. What they need is a clear and practical presentation of Dharma that is going to solve their human problems. They need to solve the problems of attachment, hatred and ignorance in their own minds without having to become a Doctor of Philosophy. I’m convinced that the essential points of Buddhist logic and valid cognition can be taught in a simple way, as indeed they are in Geshe Kelsang’s ‘Understanding the Mind’.
I think it’s pointless for us to debate such differences between our traditions. Each tradition exists for those who have the karma to practise it. NKT is not for you, and Tibetan Buddhism is not for me, it’s as simple as that. I think you and TP need to ask yourselves why you feel the need to criticise NKT constantly and not simply allow people freedom to practise their own tradition without casting aspersions. I can tell you why – you’re clinging to your own presentation of Dharma, believing that it’s superior and is the only way to practise and criticising anything that doesn’t conform with it: that’s the very sectarianism you and others claim to criticise Dorje Shugden for. Therefore, it seems that the Dalai Lama banning Dorje Shugden hasn’t exorcised the demon of sectarianism after all. How pointless that all is, causing suffering to millions of people for no reason.
Let’s all just practise the Dharma in in way that our Gurus have taught us, trying to improve our human nature and qualities so that we can help all living beings. I rejoice in your practice and wish you all the best.
Wisdom Moon
December 21, 2010 at 7:55 am
If people shut up and got on with their practice, we’d all be a lot further on and a lot more able to get along. NKT is controversial-True NKT is considered dangerous by Buddhists worldwide-true End of. Debating with zealots is light trying to make sand into water. Its a waste of time-all they do is deny and condemn and NEVER consdier the toher perspective. None of the people acting as chaplains is qualifiedperiod. They are all children in the dharma and most have littel basic training in even the fundamemtal practices not to mention experience. Letting them set their own standards is a dangerous path and opens the door to innumerable faults. That goe for NKT and most Buddhists in the West. So I dont waste time arguing when I know I am right. Well done NKT, another money spinning, reputation enhancing activity under your belts-However legitimacy will escape you as long as you stand outside Buddhist techinhgs screaming hate slogans (or peacfully protesting as you put it)
LOL
December 21, 2010 at 10:22 am
If people shut up and got on with their practice, we’d all be a lot further on and a lot more able to get along. NKT is controversial-True NKT is considered dangerous by Buddhists worldwide-true End of. Debating with zealots is light trying to make sand into water. Its a waste of time-all they do is deny and condemn and NEVER consdier the toher perspective. None of the people acting as chaplains is qualified period. They are all children in the dharma and most have littel basic training in even the fundamemtal practices not to mention experience. Letting them set their own standards is a dangerous path and opens the door to innumerable faults. That goe for NKT and most Buddhists in the West. So I dont waste time arguing when I know I am right. Well done NKT, another money spinning, reputation enhancing activity under your belts-However legitimacy will escape you as long as you stand outside Buddhist techinhgs screaming hate slogans (or peacfully protesting as you put it)
LOL
December 21, 2010 at 10:22 am
Those who see sin where none exists,
and do not see sin where it does exist-such people, embracing false doctrines, enter the downward course.
Those who know what is forbidden as forbidden,
and what is not forbidden as not forbidden-such people. embracing the good doctrine, enter the good path.
The Buddha in the Dhammapada
Anne
December 21, 2010 at 11:33 am
I agree arguing is not productive, and
Today is an eclipse day so we should all be careful.
All I will say is, if you are going to say you are following Je Rinpoche’s tradition, you should study in the way he advocates for his students. These days there are many translations of these treatises available. And you should seek out a good teacher to explain them. It takes time and is a long process, but no one is saying it has to be done quickly, so I don’t buy it that modern people are incapable of this approach. Slowly examine these treatises using the Lam Rim as a basis, and integrate your understanding into the more pithy teachings. No one HAS to follow these instructions, but if one claims one is a follower of Lama Tsongkhapa, one should:
“There are those who conclude that any classic text should be considered only an explanatory teaching, therefore lacking the key points of practice. They hold that there are separate personal instructions that teach the core meanings that are the heart of practice… Know that this attitude precludes the development of great respect for the stainless sutras and tantras as well as the flawless treatises that comment on their intent.”
“Therefore, for those who desire liberation, the supreme and authentic instructions are indeed the classic texts. However, due to your limited intelligence and so forth, you may be unable to recognize those texts as supreme instructions through depending on them alone…
But DO NOT think The texts are without substance, since they merely promote a superficial knowledge and eliminate others’ conceptions; yet the PERSONAL INSTRUCTIONS, since they reveal the meaning are SUPREME.’
“The Greatness of the Teachings” chapter Tzongkhapa, Lam Rim Chenmo (Snow Lion)
If you don’t wish to do that and take another approach that is okay. But this is what Lama Tzongkhapa advocated.
Khedrup
December 21, 2010 at 2:51 pm
Also,
This is not a matter of thinking my tradition is superior, merely saying what Lama Tzongkhapa’s guidelines were for his tradition.
In addition to my 5 years in Tibetan Buddhist monasteries and Dharamsala, I have spent a total of 2.5 years in Theravada monasteries and a year in monasteries of the Chinese Ch’an tradition. I appreciate all of these traditions and have learned a great deal from my exposure to them.
In the Tibetan tradition I count both His Holiness the Dalai Lama and HH Karmapa as my gurus – I’m not invested in thinking Gelug is superior.
My reason for outlining these points is, if you claim to be a follower of Tzongkhapa, it’s important to follow the direct advice – his many exhortations to study the classical texts.
Khedrup
December 21, 2010 at 3:48 pm
Wisdom Moon, either you forgot it or you have never learned it but among the qualities of a real Vajrayana master the tantra scriptures list that of the “protection wheel” which includes the production of effective protection amulets etc.
Stephen
January 7, 2011 at 8:09 pm
Just to follow up, you will notice that the extensive 2011 Canadian Buddhist directory maintained by Sumeru Press does not list NKT Centres nor has it done so in previous years.
Namkhah
January 31, 2011 at 10:35 pm
But they did pull one of the articles after it was posted here which makes me wonder if they were intimidated somehow.
Khedrup
February 8, 2011 at 8:46 am
I doubt it, actually most people have lost interest the whole gyalpo thing, as an issue it never really went viral despite daily propaganda campaign, its more like a dormant germ! NKT remains obnoxious–I just hope too many new recruits don’t get sucked in to their faux friendly centres and waste years of their lives “meditating”
Namkhah
March 9, 2011 at 4:06 pm
Brad Penney, aka ‘Jang-chub Ozer ‘ is an unemployed amateur blog writer in Toronto, Canada who attended Memorial University of Newfoundland.
His specialty is salacious celebrity gossip at http://wondertrash.b…b2c9b9400c594f.
On his blog http://boguszen.blog…01_archive.html we can read nuggets of ridiculous misinformation like this:
“During the Dalai Lama’s childhood there was a close relationship between Tibet and Nazi Germany. The Dalai Lama has maintained his close friendships with prominent Nazis ever since.”
Brad Penney, is a promoter of Chandrakirti NKT Centre, on Crawford Street in Toronto and posts numerous links to anti-Tibetan hate propaganda, WSS videos and defamation website.
Under provincial and federal law, this activity ought to be investigated by the Ontario Human Rights Commission (OHRC). The legal definition of hate literature is willfully promoting hatred of an identifiable religious or ethnic group.
Mr. Brad Penney, consider this fair warning:
there are 6,000 Tibetans in Toronto, we will not be slandered, libeled or otherwise abused by you.
You have a right to belong to any religious cult you wish, that does not entitle you, however, to malign others or ridicule their culture.
Namkhah
April 22, 2011 at 10:57 am
Thanks Namkha, I think this is a way/the way to deal with that issue in the West.
I think NKT via WSS might fulfil indeed the criteria of a hate group or hate priests/promoting hate material. Terms they use like “religious freedom” etc. are just abuses of commonly established terms.
Actual it is a shame that Buddhist Unions of the different countries were unable to see that such a hate campaign as NKT has launched it against the Dalai Lama and the Tibetans is unacceptable. Only the Australian Sangha Association (ASA) saw that case clearly and communicated it:
http://info-buddhism.com/ASA-statement.html
I am a bit surprised to see that on the one hand all the Buddhist organisations and teachers admire the Dalai Lama but didn’t speak up when he has been slandered effectively by “Buddhists”. They do not even say anything when China is attacking the Dalai Lama. Usually one makes clear that one condemns such vile attacks. But the only statement which clearly rejects the public slander which is thrown against the Dalai Lama was made by Desmond Tutu:
http://www.thecommunity.com/publish/home/Archbishop-Desmond-Tutu-Statement.php
I am quite sure that the Dalai Lama does not care at all about the mud which is thrown onto him but I wonder how Buddhists can just silently accept slander without any statement of condemnation. Isn’t this a way to subscribe to the slander?
Some days ago I recognized a helpless trial to face a bank which offers credits for human and ecological purposes, with the fact that they are financing one of NKT’s German centres, to argue about Shugden in that context is really the wrong way I think. They should give them the material they published and ask them to check if they fulfil the criteria of a hate group and if the bank wants to support this…
tenpel
April 22, 2011 at 4:09 pm
Sadly, it’s not slander but the truth. Everything that’s published by the WSS is verifiable and there’s often scans of the original documents. How can even you refute allegations against the Dalai Lama, that he supported armed conflict. for example, when there is clear, irrefutable documentary evidence?
It’s the same with Tashi Wangdi. Tashi Wangdi lied to the assembly when he said “there’s no ban” because there is a ban on Dorje Shugden practice – the Dalai Lama himself has said it and, again, there is clear documented evidence in the form of videos and extracts from the Dalai Lama’s speeches. The poor guy drew the short straw of being the official mouthpiece of the TGIE and having to tell a lie. I felt sorry for him and the karma he was creating, not anger.
Dorje Shugden Truth
April 24, 2011 at 7:20 pm
@So-called_”Truth”, maybe you should use a name like “Dorje Shugden Confusion” but not “truth”. What WSS published is a mix of rumours, gossip, wrong accusations and some facts and half truths. Also what you write here is exactly such a mix.
“How can even you refute allegations against the Dalai Lama, that he supported armed conflict.”
I have never done this. The Dalai Lama himself says that in certain situations violence might be used to avoid a greater harm. Though one can object such claims or agree with it, there is no refutation or allegation as you claim. You are confused in this context.
“Tashi Wangdi lied to the assembly when he said ‘there’s no ban’ because there is a ban on Dorje Shugden practice – the Dalai Lama himself has said it”
There is no general ban of Shugden. When Tashi Wangdi said “there’s no ban” he meant that there is no general ban of Shugden as NKT/WSS wrongly claim. You must see the context of statements and you shouldn’t take statements out of their context—at least if you wish to avoid simplistic propaganda. There is indeed no general ban because as the Dalai Lama and others stressed everybody is free to practice it privately and there are monasteries founded by Shugden devotees who practice it. Also NKT is free to practice it. When the Dalai Lama said there is a ban, then this is also true, because he and others indeed installed restrictions on that practice and discourage from practising it. The problem is that NKT/WSS made out of that a general ban that’s why Tashi Wangdi or the Dalai Lama said in such a context of wrong allegations that there is no (general) ban.
“I felt sorry for him and the karma he was creating, not anger.”
I see you are a compassionate, patient person and the other person is bad. You are good, the other person is bad. This is the way how pride reveals itself.
tenpel
April 24, 2011 at 8:08 pm
I’m glad you mentioned Archbishop Desmond Tutu, because it reminds me of something Tashi Wangdi shared with us about his colleague the Dalai Lama’s socalled ‘political’ activities:
When the 2008 Beijing Olympics was generating controversy and in fact probably hundreds of unarmed Tibetan civilians were killed by Chinese security forces in Tibet, His Holiness arranged a private meeting at the White House. Now you may jump to conclude the meeting was in regard to this situation or perhaps to do with Tibetans in India, but in fact His Holiness was pleading for aid on behalf of the Darfur refugees of southern Sudan quietly and behind the scenes.
So while the NKT and their WSS office 44 miles north of Gyatso’s Conishead Priory, were claiming he is a politician moving in Hollywood circles, in fact His Holiness is one of the great humanitarians of our time who actually seeks no publicity.
I would like to add at this point that Tashi Wangdi was called a liar to his face by WSS/NKT “sangha” and he is not the only individual slandered and maligned in WSS/NKT propaganda: the previous Reting Rinpoche, Samdhong Rinpoche and several others have been viciously attacked by the cult, so their argument that the issue is only about HHDL is demonstrated as false.
Speaking of mistruths, the self-characterization that “The Western Sxxxxx Society is only the community or confederation of Wisdom Buddha Dorje Sxxxxx practitioners it has no leader nor registered office” is patently misleading–actually the WSS has both a studio in London and an office:
6 TORONTO STREET
CARLISLE
CUMBRIA
ENGLAND
CA2 4EG
And here is a recent documented list of WSS officers, all of whom are NKT cultists:
JOHN BERRIE Appointment terminated as director on 01 Dec 2010 (Document)
MS LISA MCGOVERN Appointed as secretary on 01 Dec 2010 (Document)
MS DEIRDRE GAIL LOFTUS Appointed as director on 01 Dec 2010 (Document)
SUSAN MARY JENKINS Particulars Changed as director on 17 Aug 2010 (Document)
HELEN GRADWELL Appointment terminated as secretary on 12 Jun 2010 (Document)
MR JOHN ALEXANDER BERRIE Appointed as director on 03 Dec 2009 (Document)
ROSEMARY MCDANIEL Appointment terminated as director on 03 Dec 2009 (Document)
HELEN GRADWELL Appointed as secretary on 23 Apr 2009 (Document)
ROSEMARY ELIZABETH MCDANIEL Appointed as director on 23 Apr 2009 (Document)
May the Easter bunny bring you more truth!
Namkhah
April 22, 2011 at 7:56 pm
Thank you Namkha. It is sad how people can fool themselves so much.
BTW with respect to Tashi Wangdi, I saw one of the rather hysterical WSS youtube videos where he had the courage to go among the upset protesters at Colgate and he was utter calm, he tried also in a very kind manner to calm down a upset Tibetan. He had no chance because he was just the target of their anger, he didn’t say much, he just tried, I felt a lot of respect for this. I wouldn’t have that courage.
tenpel
April 22, 2011 at 8:08 pm
Apr. 28, 2011
The cult website has sunk to new depths of nastiness and depravity, really one could consider this as a new chapter in The Yellow Book
(reposted from Phayul)”It is time for FPMT to repair their broken samaya with Dharmaphala Dxxxxx Sxxxxxx. Their broken commitments has led to manifesting their teacher Lama Zopa unable to speak and unable to verbally convey the dharma ” Sounds like The Yellow Book, which cost them everything in terms of respect and legitimacy, don’t they learn from the mistakes of Trijang and Zhimey?
this perverse and unfortunate gloating sentiment is from the very moderator of the cult website, is typical of the convoluted and nasty mindset of the devil cultists. really the antithesis of dharmic thought.
http://www.dorjeshug…hp?topic=1158.0
0
Namkhah
April 28, 2011 at 1:45 pm
Such a level of fundamentalism approves for me that it is an act of compassion and wisdom to put restrictions on that practice. I am so happy that my relation with these mental attitudes and perversion of the Dharma has ceased…
tenpel
April 28, 2011 at 9:10 pm
You’d have to be a seriously sick person to frame the illness of Lama Zopa Rinpoche that way. A person who does so much to benefit the dharma, who feeds thousands of monks, establishes eye hospitals and animal sanctuaries and is helping to re establish Buddhism in Mongolia.
There is no level to which they will not sink.
Khedrup
April 29, 2011 at 10:56 am
In addition, the cultists’ moderator–rather than recant–is claiming (in typical fashion) his mean spirited position regarding Ven. Lama Zopa Rinpoche will increase visits to their propaganda blog, and when people see the wonderful insights there, there will be instant new convert gyalpo slaves.
….really twisted and pathologically sick.
Namkhah
April 29, 2011 at 6:37 pm